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Post by Sephiroth Kaizen on Jul 30, 2005 19:32:38 GMT -5
I guess you hate me... there's a difference between strict vegetarians, vegetarians and vegans. People considered since I never ate beef, pork or lamb that I was a vegetarian. On the other hand, I was raised on eating chicken, turkey and fish. I think, somehow, poultry is not considered "meat" like beef and pork.
A cool thing about octopuses: According to my zoology professor, if they are placed in an open top tank underneath another open-top tank of fish, it can actually tell where the fish are by the reflection in a window. Not only will it make its way to the above fish tank, but it'll make its way back down into its own tank (as if nothing happened). LOL
I get very angry whenever I hear of animal neglect and abuse, but my faith in humans as caretakers isn't affected by it. For every person guilty of animal neglect, there is someone who is kind enough and selfless enough to take in that animal. I met a woman with her two younger daughters at PetsMart who had a beautiful German shepard puppy. She told me they just rescued the puppy from a neglectful owner that day. Yes, humans abuse their dominion over animals, but not everyone will stand for it.
I don't agree that language is what draws the line between humans and animals. Animals communicate to each other in their own way, especially physically (silent) and audible. I think that the boldest line between animals and humans are the ability to fully think/reflect/consider an action before following through. Most animals react on natural instinct, if not all and even though we may think they "consider" their actions beforehand, they don't stop to actually think where they went wrong. I can't remember the actual term that's used... but it has something to do with thoughts. Forgive me.
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Post by silverscythes on Jul 31, 2005 10:18:58 GMT -5
Oh yes, but they're only capable of select phrases, humans can come up with an infinite number of sentences and thoughts. Animals communication isn't actually considered language.
I don't hate you <3 it just irks me when a vegetarian snaps at me for eating meat then gobbles up a fish. I think it's kinda lame.
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Post by Pimpmaster McSlap-Bitch on Jul 31, 2005 20:07:03 GMT -5
I hate you both He he, nah, but it seems that you`re vegetarians not for the reason of not harming animal life, but for your own reasons, such as not wanting to eat mammal meat (for whatever reason). I am of the mind that there is no such thing as a strict vegetarian, or at least there it is a redundance phrase. Vegetarian means not eating flesh in my book, any transgression makes you a flesh eater I think animals consider their actions before executing them. You can see it. You`re a pet owner so surely you`ve seen it too. For example, a cat stalking prey. The animal chooses when to strike right? You could say that hunting technique is instinct, and it is instinctual to hunt, but the difference between striking from 4 foot away and maybe missing and 3 1/2 feet and maybe scaring the prey off is the decision of the animals. Then again, you did say most animals, and I`m sure that`ll be your D. Honestly SK, so sucky And animals know when they`ve done wrong; the puppy who shits in the corner cowers when it sees it`s owner find it. I suppose that`s instilling our own ideas of right and wrong one might say... How about the animal that learns how to hunt, leaping from distances too far to catch prey or chasing animals faster than themselves?
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Post by candycanechild on Aug 1, 2005 5:35:26 GMT -5
wow...o.o; so then! here we go making a complete fool of myself..
NOW! before you go off and read this and become absolutely ENTHRALLED that someone like ME would be saying this...remember i just scanned over yalls posts and im jest statin my opinions ^^
Erm..i tend to dwell in my own form of reality..so..what makes yall think maybe these animals understand whats going on? Maybe they understand that "This is my lot in life..i am to be eaten by the bigger and the better...whoever the bigger and the better may be" now for those punny bunnies who get skinned and suchnot...now thats an upsetting image...but as long as nothing is wasted i see no harm..like thoe weirdo indians we always get hounded about in history "They used EVERY part of the buffalo" well..if you use EVERY part of the bunny whats the harm?
Now when i think animal cruelty i think an undernourished horse or dog, a cat thats kept in a cage and only used for breeding..those little kitties that grow up in bottles...bonsai kitties er somethin...
But...killing an animal for food..or even clothing goes back to even before we understood we had opposable thumbs...you didnt see Lucy (that ape lady they found some years back..not Lucile Ball >.<), or rather you dont hear stories of her, runing around hugging bunnies and cows and eating only wild daisies..she hunted by god and if she didnt hunt she would of died...
And another thing...we needcertain vitamins from redmeat..and fish..doesanyone stop to think fish are getting abused? no of course not theres so many! Well thats one sided wouldnt you say? Anywho what was i saying o.o; yargh..oh yes vitamins..have you ever seen a 6'1, 250 pound vegetarian with a tan and perfect teeth? If you have..send him my way >.> XD no im kidding..umm..but yes..
As a mammal/animal in general, we NEED certain things from other animals to survive..i dunno exactly what...but i knowwe do ^^
Just randomness here as i dont actually know the answer ._. Do vegetarians or Omnivores generally live longer in the Human race?
and..hate...is an extremely strong word...
im sure theres more but im positive i shall be blugened by people before i can get around to checking this forumy thing again...so..i shall leave it at this and hope im not stalked down and killed before friday ^^....
and SO!...my arms hurt..and..umm...im sorry if im just wasting space or i made no sesne or im repeating something tahts already been said..Forums arent my thing....
^^ thanks for reading! byes!! ^^
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Post by Pimpmaster McSlap-Bitch on Aug 1, 2005 22:42:09 GMT -5
I agree with all, minus the using all of the bunny part, mainly because there is no reason to kill the bunny but for their skins, which certainly aren`t a necessity to anybody, while meat is a necessity to carnivores (well, you know). But yah, we`re definately carnivores... *tongues incisors and canines* Or at least omnivores... *tongues molars* But... www.strasbourgcurieux.com/fourrure/ ... not cool. So Ms. Cane, are animals deserving of rights? And if not, what rights do we deserve? I suppose the natural and the human is a divide too clear cut to compare across, hm? What do you think?
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Post by candycanechild on Aug 2, 2005 3:53:32 GMT -5
^^ ms. cane! that makes me giddy..
-sigh- ive never been good at these discussions..unles im extremely passionate about something ive never been able to see something from just ONE side..
on one hand..i think its giving ourselves too much credit to draw a line bewteen whats natural and whats bein ga human being...i mean.isnt being natural being a human being?
we eat bunnies down here in the south..i know its icky..but we do..we dont just kill crap for the hell of it we skin the bunnies for lining on snow boots when we go up north where it actually snows (@.@) and we eat the meat..
but then again...we already eat so much meat...we could live off cows and chickens and fish alone..but were so greedy we have to hunt down every animal we can find and eat their meat...that goes back to the primitive days too..we would kill what was in reach to survive..but then again..now a days were just being picky..
and are animals deserving of rigths? well rather we know it/accept it or not...we give them rigths every day...we give them the right to roam free..most of them at least..andfor the ones tahtarent its just like children being born in the city or country...maybe not JUST LIKE..but similar..we dont get to decide who were born to, where were born, where we live until we come of age...
but then again animals never "come of age"..so what are we supposedt o just let cows and igs and chickens roam free and starve? if animals are to be given rigths what are these rights theyre to be given? i mean we cnat very well walk up to a cow and say "would you like to be eaten or freed?" first off..if a cow could talk im almost certain it would choose to be free...and second off..cows cant talk o.O..
and if we set a cow in the middle of the field and let it choose between being free or walking home to its farm..it would most likely go in the direction of the sweetest grass..
NOTIHING IS EVER BLACK AND WHITE! NEVER EVER! and i wish people could see in technicolor..its like a burden for me to be so derned colorful in so many ways XD
why i cant stay on one side andenforce my feelings ill never know..but this a topic that has long been fought oevr and for a long time, im sure, will still be fought over...thus..i find it pointless to argue over something so common..
why dotn argue about more important things...like Psycho Le Cemu's vocalist, Daishi Kajinaga's, innocence or guilt?
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Post by candycanechild on Aug 2, 2005 3:55:38 GMT -5
oof x.xso many typos..sorry >.<
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Post by Pimpmaster McSlap-Bitch on Aug 2, 2005 12:10:06 GMT -5
Being human I suppose is being natural. I mean, we`re naturally human beings. But it`s clear that we`re very different from the rest of nature. I kinda disagree with the idea that we give animals the right to roam free. Freedom is a god given right; not being free isn`t the natural state of things. Killing animals isn`t bad or wrong - indeed it`s natural - but to bring about an animals unnecessary suffering is. That`s why we need animal rights. I think killing for natural reasons is acceptable, such as for food, but not solely for clothing though, since we have alternatives that are better in everyway, minus perhaps, aethetic value, which to me seems incredibly selfish when considering the value of life, which I hold in high regard. Same for ivory, etc. (I can`t say much for say, tiger penis, since I don`t understand the culture, but you get what I`m saying by bringing it up. All animals strive to survive and do so being healthy). I disagree with cramped chicken batteries, but with what I`ve just said, I suppose it`s an unfortunate truth that we need slaughter houses and the like in order for us to survive in health. I suppose one could argue that it doesn`t matter if the animals suffer if they`ll be dead soon anyway, but again I`d have to disagree. I don`t know what the afterlife holds for me or cows and chickens, but I know suffering sucks and life hates it. Things like keeping animals in cages too small... killing animals or causing them harm unnecessarily... that link... shit like that... it`s just morally wrong IMO, but people still do it. Animal rights is worthy of your consideration. War of the Worlds was a fun notion (for me at least) cause they flipped it on us and we didn`t like it (we win though). Ms. Cane, it`s hardly pointless. If we`re used to treating animals badly, how much of a leap is it to treat humans poorly? We`re all lifeforms after all. If you like, we can argue about the reasons behind my sexiness, although I`m sure we'll all see my allure from different points of view
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Post by candycanechild on Aug 2, 2005 18:38:48 GMT -5
...i hate these serious conversations o.o;
i dont want to respond to any of that cause im moving to another topic >.> as this is all making me very very sad...
and i dunno about you..pimpmaster o.O;..but mugen is damn sexy ^^
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Post by Pimpmaster McSlap-Bitch on Aug 2, 2005 19:02:58 GMT -5
As my chosen avatar, Mugen is only a meer reflection of my sexiness. Ask around. I`m the sexiest thing since sex
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Post by candycanechild on Aug 2, 2005 21:48:00 GMT -5
ive heard youre just a butthole out to rape all us innocent ladies -sniffles- >.>
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Post by Yaoi Girl on Aug 3, 2005 15:22:51 GMT -5
Ok...I'm gonna give my own thoughts on this.
First of all, I'm a vegan (don't hate me!!) I don't eat meat because I can't eat anything I wouldn't kill myself. I don't do dairy because it doesn't seem right to me to consume something produced for that's creature's baby and I'm not able to consume too much without getting sick anyways (lactose intolerance). And yes, there are certain things you can get from meat but it isn't any different than the things you can get from a plant you can get all the protein and et cetera. Calcium can come from proper eating and shopping. So I'm a healthy little vegan. ;D
I think animals should have rights. They can think, and feel. You take a cow's baby from it and it gets sad it'll make an effort to go in search for it. Dogs get angry when ignore them and they are trying to get your attention, mine does it all the time and she won't let me touch her at all for hours so don't tell me they can't hold grudges.
Humans and animals aren't too different and animals I think have nearly the same amount of intelligence because you can teach them to recognize gestures, voice tones and even some words. That shows a lot of intelligence to me.
But yeah...I don't know where I was going with any of this so I'll stop now. Please don't kill me. I'm just recently seeing the Deep Thoughts board and all it's wonder.
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Post by candycanechild on Aug 3, 2005 19:52:20 GMT -5
>.<! lmao if anyone kills you theyll have to kill me too ._. im just as new as you are to this topicy thing..
and i gave up my part in this discussion >.<! :X despite my want for opening my big fat mouth im not saying a word..
._.'''
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Post by Pimpmaster McSlap-Bitch on Aug 4, 2005 23:13:21 GMT -5
-__-
If you`ve something to say, then say it.
I do, and I know I`m probably the reason you don`t want to speak your mind. Speak and you might just convince somebody otherwise.
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Athildur
Warrior
Chibi Kage Bunshin no Jutsu! :P
Posts: 99
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Post by Athildur on Aug 5, 2005 17:57:31 GMT -5
Animal rights, I am totally for animal rights. I deeply respect the people that are vegetarians, or vegans, but I myself am not one of them. It hurts me deeply to see animals being mistreated in any way, though I cannot but shrug off the fact that animals are indeed kiled for our food. I know it happens, but I can't bring myself to being a vegetarian. Then again, humans have been hunters for over a long time, ans nature has enough predators of its own. I've heared all the discussions about it, participated in enough as well, but there is really no end to the vwegetarian or not battle. Yes, I do believe it is horrible to kill creatures, but no, I do not support the cause of ceasing to kill animals for food. As long as the animal is killed for food and only food (or any other essentials, but they must indeed be essential), I can accept it. Then, if there's anything on the creature that can be used for other means (cowhide into leather or something), by all means do, bu only if the cow was killed for food.
Bunnies etc, as I have read here, shouldn't be killed. They are in no way needed for food, we have enough cows and pigs for that, and their fur...well, that's just sick.
I believe that animals have right of a life as much as their natural environment would be, without too much interference from humans. Obviously, pets cannot be put into natural environments or similar situations, as they have been domesticated. Yes, I do believe domesticating animals is not really right, but in many cases it provides a better life for both the animal and the people keeping the animal. (I dislike the idea of breeding animals just for domestic 'use')
Uh, I may have more to say, but I'm a bit short in time (I can ramble on for hours, if I had hours:P). I'll finish this some day soon.
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